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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1386
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Posted - 2013.08.01 14:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
A partial win for armor repping, but a huge problem with it still cap usage, they use a massive amount of cap for a "sustained" repair system. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1387
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Posted - 2013.08.01 14:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Judas II wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: Increase the rep amount for all armor repairers (including AARs) by 15%
Increase the shield bonus of all shield boosters (except for deadspace/officer reps and ASBs) by 15%
Daft question, are faction Shield boosters buffed or not? (Dread Guristas, Pith A/B/C/X-type etc etc) Faction boosters like Dread Guristas are buffed, Deadspace boosters like Pith are not. they should at least get something, maybe 5% otherwise there going to be outta line They were out of line, with these changes they will be inline. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1390
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Posted - 2013.08.01 15:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:blarggg wrote:Caleb Ayrania wrote:Will this apply to repair drones also? (Would be nice with maybe a bit more than 15% on drones imho)
Is it going to be on all meta levels, and could some minor gradient balance be considered?
I didn't see any responses to this guys drone question so i figured i quote to make it get noticed. Will drones get +15% repair amount? (or +22.137% based on arbitrary math) Not as part of this change no. I take it, it will be part of drone balance. *starts playing some where over the rainbow* Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1391
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Posted - 2013.08.01 17:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Please CCP Fozzie consider reducing the cap usage on medium and large reps, small reps seem to be ok. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1394
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Posted - 2013.08.01 18:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
As an example of the cap problem with armor repping; the Hyperion, a ship designed to armor rep, recharges 8Gj/s with perfect skills. A large armor repairer II consumes 35Gj/s with level 5 skills. That is a -28Gj/s cap usage, hardly sustained. It would be nice for a single armor repairer to 0 out the recharge rate ad not go massive negative. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1402
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Posted - 2013.08.01 23:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Under these numbers one point stands out above the rest and that is the HP/Cap/s A T2 X-Large Shield Booster II has an meta-efficiency of .34 A Large Armor Repairer II has a meta-efficiency of .15 Less than half as efficient as a shield booster and this is the big problem between the two. To make armor have a meta-efficiency of .34 without becoming OP the cap needs need to be reduced.
New HP 920 Cycle 15 Target Efficiency .34 920/15/.34 = 180 cap / cycle Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1402
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Posted - 2013.08.01 23:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Travasty Space wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Under these numbers one point stands out above the rest and that is the HP/Cap/s A T2 X-Large Shield Booster II has an meta-efficiency of .34. With skills at level 5 it is .38 A Large Armor Repairer II has a meta-efficiency of .15. With skills at level 5 it is .20 Less than half as efficient as a shield booster and this is the big problem between the two. To make armor have a meta-efficiency of .34 without becoming OP the cap needs need to be reduced. New HP 920 Cycle 15 Target Efficiency .38 920/15/.38 = 215 cap / cycle Edit: Reworked efficiency with skills at level 5. Your missing the point of armor vs shield on local tanks. I didn't miss the point at all, hence the reason I am suggesting a cap reduction for armor repairers rather than a HP boost or a cycle time reduction .
Quote: Edit: the ASB vs AAR gives more to that point. You have really strong burst with the ASB but then nothing. Whereas the AAR gives a strong tank and either a weaker continued tank or reload.
The AAR was designed as a burst tanking module for armor tanking. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1402
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Posted - 2013.08.02 00:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:That would be true if SB+SBA were the equivalent of double armor reps but in fact this is very easy to verify it's impossible to compare or, how can you compare twice drawbacks (and not little ones) twice huge amounts of PG/CAP to 1 module using 1/3rd if not 1/4 the cap 4x faster cycling and a module using no cap ridiculous CPU/PG and ridiculous drawbacks? There's no comparison possible, even if you pick a T2 rig + AR vs SB+SBA we're far away from anything comparable, shield modules are way out of whack for ages, numerous threads about this for ages and there's a verifiable reason for this: once you can fly all sub cap ships and fit them you understand quickly what are the "I win buttons" It's really not for fun or because armor is so awesome armor ships often fit shieldmods except for large fleets, well except Baltec  Even with mediocre number of mid slots you can push stronger ships than armor fitted, if you don't see an issue here but creativity I have to disagree with you. I'd see some creativity if the difference was made by player skill and not completely OP modules. I'm not saying they are well balanced and we live in a perfect world but that when you compare a complete fit with 2*LAR2 + rigs vs XLSB2+SBA2+rig then the differences decrease a lot. Just try it. And the CPU cost of XLSB+SBA is not to forget. But then I actually don't have a clue about faction/officer/deadspace modules and I'm only talking about T2 balance. I did ETF those configurations and the resulting was shield boosting was more cap efficient but both were the same HP/sec. Which brings me back to the point of reduce the cap needs of armor repairers. Edit:I used the same ship so the capacitor numbers would not be off, the difference was 7gj/s with shield boosting at about 56 and armor at 63gj/s. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1404
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Posted - 2013.08.02 05:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Roime wrote:Sylvanium Orlenard wrote:Gallente ships are tipically close range brawling fits that required MWD to get in range.
Armor Reppers are CAP intensive
MWD Nerfs total cap capacity, thus cap recharge rate.
Gallente ships are the only ships to get an armor repper bonus (Incursus, BC, Command Ships and Hyperion)
Am I the only one that sees the problem? Yes, you are. Rest of us fit cap boosters. So it is fine that the "sustained" tanking system requires 3 modules and 2 rigs to do what Burst tanking can do with 2 modules and 2 rigs? Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1404
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Posted - 2013.08.02 05:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Roime wrote:Sylvanium Orlenard wrote:Gallente ships are tipically close range brawling fits that required MWD to get in range.
Armor Reppers are CAP intensive
MWD Nerfs total cap capacity, thus cap recharge rate.
Gallente ships are the only ships to get an armor repper bonus (Incursus, BC, Command Ships and Hyperion)
Am I the only one that sees the problem? Yes, you are. Rest of us fit cap boosters. So it is fine that the "sustained" tanking system requires 3 modules and 2 rigs to do what Burst tanking can do with 2 modules and 2 rigs? Um, yes. Sustained tanking is, well, sustained whereas burst runs out pretty fast. Sustained should be harder to fit and/or run. Shield boosting will sustain longer than armor repairing in this case. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1416
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Posted - 2013.08.02 19:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rush Kenni wrote: Good thing I'm training up for armor tanking. 15% more base repping for AARs is going to make ships with armor rep bonuses even better. Capless omni resists with strong capless active reps are going to make some ships very popular when this goes live. Please enlighten me with this fabled cap less active armor rep module. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1417
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Posted - 2013.08.02 22:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
Luc Chastot wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Rush Kenni wrote: Good thing I'm training up for armor tanking. 15% more base repping for AARs is going to make ships with armor rep bonuses even better. Capless omni resists with strong capless active reps are going to make some ships very popular when this goes live. Please enlighten me with this fabled cap less active armor rep module. He never said armor reps, so he must be talking about ASBs, which means he plans to omni tank or something; don't know which is more stupid though, omni tanking or inexcusable ignorance for a 5-year-old vet. But he did, passive omni resists (only armor has that) and a "cap less active reps". His whole paragraph is about armor tanking. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1425
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Posted - 2013.08.04 08:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rowells wrote: Well, armor has better repair to capacitor use than shields along with larger repair amount BY A LOT.
Sorry this is only true for burst tanking.
Rowells wrote:Armor tanking is always better for longer more drawn out combat. Shield tanking is better for sustained combat not armor, with passive regeneration, faster reps and over time a lower capacitor usage shield tanking wins.
Shield Booster 1 X-Large Shield Booster II 1 Shield Boost Amplifier II 1 Core Defense Operational Solidifier I 1 Core Defense Operational Safeguard I Will rep 816HP in 4.25s for 342GJ
Armor Repair 2 Large Armor Repairer II 1 Nanobot Accelerator 1 Auxiliary Nano Pump Will rep 1840HP in 9.5625s for 800GJ
With this it takes 153 seconds for the cycles to equal out. 2 min 33 sec
Shield tanking HP boosted 29,376 Cap Usage 12,312GJ Number of cycles 36
Armor tanking HP repped 29,440 Cap usage 12,800 Number of cycles 16 Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1429
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Posted - 2013.08.05 19:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
The final thing armor tanking needs to be an effective sustained tanking system is there capacitor usage reduced. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1429
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Posted - 2013.08.06 01:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ines Tegator wrote:Cycle duration is far more important then total rep amount, imo. Armor reps are already pretty efficient, and this is going to swing PVE fittings heavily towards armor.
For PVP, which is where armor has a problem, throughput is less of an issue then the delay. In small gang warfare, 12 seconds (medium repper) is enough time to go from not yet targeted to dead. This change will not affect pvp at all, except for some niche areas (frigate vs frigate, capitals). Cut the delay in half, cut the reps/cycle and cap use to match, and THEN take a look at throughput. The problem with that is, when all the numbers are boiled down armor and shields rep about the same amount of HP in the same amount of time for about the same amount of cap. The big difference is, shields will also passive regenerate during this. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1431
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Posted - 2013.08.07 16:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Ok, update to the plan.
We're adjusting the buff to some forms of shield boosters (CN/DG, Large and X-L deadspace/officer) We're also exempting capital reps and boosters from this change for now until we've dealt with Pulsar and Wolf Rayet bonuses. ASBs still not getting changed.
New version of the changelist:
Increase the rep amount for all subcap armor repairers (including AARs) by 15%
Increase the shield bonus of some subcap shield boosters (T1, Meta, T2, Storyline, Domination, Republic Fleet) by 15%
Increase the shield bonus of Large Deadspace/Officer, X-Large Deadspace/Officer shield boosters by 10%
Increase the shield bonus of Caldari Navy and Dread Guristas shield boosters by 5%
No change to Small/Medium Deadspace boosters, all sizes of ASBs, Capital boosters, Capital reps
Let us know what you think! So, no cap usage reduction for armor repairers? that is quite a problem still. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1436
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:can somebody please explain to me why suddenly deadspace shieldboosters need also a buff? i thought the initial change was aimed at making active armor repping more viable and reducing the (crazy) gap between deadspace boosters and lesser modules.
buffing across the board just looks like horrific power-creep... The buff was done to makeup for the loss that came from the link nerf, that is all. Many, myself included, took this opprutinity to bring up the flaws with armor tanking and ask for further change to it so that it would have a better foothold with shield tanking.
Right now shield tanking is more efficient in pretty much every fashion. Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1436
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Roime wrote: How is this situation worse from current, where you cannot tank 2-3 of them? At least in the future people are more willing to upengage, fights last longer and require more micromanagement.
I just had an awesome 1+links vs 2 all in Myrmidons, I died when my cap boosters ran out, but before that good times were had by all. Grinding through buffers is boring compared to fighting active tanks, and there's more room for piloting errors.
You should not be able to tank 2-3 of them, you should outplay them by kiting or seperating them long enough to get a kill. And whoever thinks gameplay that encourages blobbing is good can **** off. So, you basically think armor tanking should be removed as armor ships are not know for there agility and speed. that kiting modules use low slots which is the same place as armor resist mods, armor rep mods, and damage mods.
So as armor you should not be able to tank 2~3, you can't kite them well, and you can't out gun them.
So where should armor tanking lay then? Ideas for Drone ImprovementTwitter Account-á @Omnathious |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1436
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Posted - 2013.08.08 19:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Batelle wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote:Active armour has no speed disadvantage to shield fits since the rig change.
Only if you forget that about 3/4 of the deadspace shield boosters are off-the-charts good compared to the other shield boosters or any of the deadspace armor reppers. No shield fit is superior to a armour one. A t2 armour rep beats a t2 shield booster, a blinged out sarmour tank ebats the shield tank. And everything beats asbs (a dualrep incursus tanks more then a dual masb hawk for example). Tell that to the shield Brutix, the shield Talos, the shield thorax, and the shield Dominix. I am sure there are more. DED Complex Overhaul Idea - Ideas For Drone Improvement |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1437
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Posted - 2013.08.09 16:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:raawe wrote:Cost is also problem with rep paste (AAR) but i'm leaning more towards buffing AAR some more to justify it's rep cost. If only one module is allowed it should at least be comparable to ASB's Add insult to injury: still uses cap while boosting with nanites  I more look at it, Add insult to injury: still requires cap booster to manage cap needs, while burning up nanite paste. DED Complex Overhaul Idea - Ideas For Drone Improvement |
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1443
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Posted - 2013.08.14 15:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote: The additional 15% breaks pretty much the entire Gallente repair line of ships.
The additional 15% is to compensate for the loss of resistance bonus form warfare links, with links applied it puts them in the same (or extremely close) position as they were before. Ideas for Drone Improvement |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1487
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Posted - 2013.09.01 21:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Does this mean we get our resists pushed back up to 5% per level? The whole reason why they were nerfed was because local rep bonuses somehow performed badly in comparison. Local reps are having a massive buff and by the same circular logic identified in this thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=224880If you reverse the math it can now be seen that Local Rep bonuses are more powerful than resist bonuses. This change was in response to booster resists getting nerfed by 10% and was done to compensate local reps for the lost resist. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
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